Keeping Grace Tied to Truth - Plus Q&A!

On today’s episode, how can we be kind and graceful when advocating for truth? And how can we do so while not watering down the truth? We’ll also be taking some of your questions at the end of the episode.

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Transcript

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Welcome to sit down with Skye and Amanda, where we're navigating a divisive world and a mixed orientation marriage. On this podcast, we are faith affirming. First, on today's episode, how can we be kind and graceful when advocating for truth and how can we do so while not watering down the truth? We'll also be taking some of your questions at the end of the episode. All that and more on today's episode of Sit Down with Skye and Amanda. I felt so weird for you tonight. So Skye and Preston. Really? Yeah. I thought you were making a mistake for a second there. No, it's Amanda. Also, how funny is it that my name is Amanda? Because you're gay and you married a man? Duh. Stupid is the funniest joke. We will never not be funny. Can I keep that in the podcast? I mean, sure. Okay, we'll do that. That will be our intro. Welcome to Welcome everyone to the podcast. Um, we always have, like, just chatter after I do the intro and then I just decide when to start. Um. Yeah. Welcome, everyone. I have a few announcements here to get started. Um, so first of all, just a reminder, you can preorder my book on Amazon or Cedar for, um, e-book or paperback, and the audiobook will be available soon. I just got a call from my publisher today and they are going to send me the first copy, the author copy. So I will get to see it. Which is very. Exciting. Yeah, well, like paperback. Yeah. I mean, like. Not hardcover, but a physical copy. Digital copy. That's correct. So that very exciting. Um, and then also just a reminder that Preston, his mom and also me, I can't figure out of say that Preston and his mom will be keynoting at Northstar the conference. And then I will also be doing a breakout. So we would love to see any one of you there. If you want to come. It'll be my first time going to Northstar. Um, but yeah, Hope to see some of you there. Okay. So what are we talking about today? Like I said in the intro, kind of the this balance of grace and truth that that is a, I think one of the unspoken themes or kind of spoken themes of this podcast back when it was me and Preston and then also now and we, I've just noticed um, this debate in conservative politics, um, latter day Saint circles online just kind of this debate between the balance of grace and truth and what's, what is that balance, especially when promoting the gospel online. Um, how do we find that balance. Right? And ultimately, obviously our goal is to become like our savior. So it's, I mean, I see a lot of members who are trying to kind of parse out what is more Christlike, so more Christlike to to testify of truth, or is it more Christlike to, you know, do people already know the truth and and they just kind of want to live the way that they want to live. So just let just let them be that sort of idea. And I think as humans, we kind of tend to swing one way or the other, given our life and our experiences. And yeah, it's hard it's hard to. Find that that middle of oh, that middle of actually at work. So we, um, for those of you who don't know, I work for American Heritage School and we're creating an online curriculum for students. So I'm involved in creating video content for students to learn. Um, to like an online slash in-person hybrid learning and these past couple of weeks has been it's been physics that we are creating right now, a physics unit. And so we've been learning a lot about pendulums and it's filmed at the planetarium, the, the pendulum there. And one of the, one of the things I've learned recently, I probably learned in school, but just forgot, um, this, this idea of a restoring force, which is like, I believe if I explain this correctly, gravity would be a restoring force because with a pendulum, it's trying to bring the pendulum to the very lowest point that sort of gravity is trying to do. But then the momentum of the the pendulum makes it go back and forth and pass that lowest point and anyway go back and forth. And like you said, with with human nature, it is that tendency to gravitate toward extremes. So when we're talking about grace and truth, it's common to see people who who are more focused on the truth that they forget to be graceful and how they present the truth, or those who, in an effort to be graceful and compassionate, forget the truth of the gospel and just see that as a barrier to connect with people rather than the reason that we do so and want to connect and what we want to promote. So I've been thinking about that a lot. I think one thing to is we have to remember what our goal is. Our goal is to bring people to Christ. It's not to prove any point. It's not to be right. It's to bring people to Christ. And honestly, what's the best way that we have to figure out what the best way to do that is? Mm hmm. Yeah, Because, I mean, if we're if that is our goal, then we have to look at, okay, what's the most effective way to bring people, bring the most amount of people to Christ, because that is where the context of the gospel and the plan of salvation. When we understand the plan of salvation, that should be our goal at least, is to help others on the covenant path. Because in the eternal perspective, that is what is going to bring the most joy to anyone who who lives that path. And so that should be a ah. If it's not our goal, it should be. And I'm not perfect at that. Like sometimes I just want to make a point and make someone agree with me because I like when people agree with me. I mean, who doesn't, right? Yeah, it's kind of nice. But we kind of broke it down to what? What are so like, what are kind of the pros and cons of an emphasis on truth and an emphasis on grace or like when when those are when we're too when we're overzealous with the truth. What are some of the pros and cons? And you'll have to forgive me, mostly because the way my brain works, I have to have things very organized. So if this feels like to wrote to dry it, I'll take the fall for that one. Basically what she's saying is I created a beautiful outline and then she just did not really you actually did make it more sense. Organized. I'm more just like, get things out on paper. And then when the conversation turns to that, then I'll just like, pull those things out. But you are very much more let's outline it like point by point. So we're going to find that balance. Maybe it's because that. Balance hey. Hey, I'll add all it all to. Is that better because I am more disorganized in my brain. Which seems like I should be the opposite. Things organize. I don't know the way I talk. Anyways, enough about me. Well, some of the pros and cons. Of. Overemphasizing truth. So one that we. And just really sorry really quick. I think we're going to kind of speak in generalities, talking kind of about politics, because there's kind of a tendency when when looking at grace and truth and especially in a religious context, usually it is those on the right side of the aisle politically that tend to focus more on truth and like hold upholding objective truth as the the the good. And then those on the left tend to focus more on like connecting and compassion and in my opinion, sometimes have kind of a misplaced compassion that is not rooted in the truth. So we're going to be talking about generalities a little bit, and it's not always the case, but I think in a lot of a lot of cases, it is. And I have to make this point really fast because I thought of it. Truth without compassion and grace is incomplete, just as compassion without truth is incomplete. And bear with me for a second. I feel like I was listening to an episode where they were talking about the Bible, and it's a Hebrew in the Hebrew Bible. Like, try to remember what your. Truth was always in the masculine form. Oh, yeah. Whereas Grace was always in the feminine form. Like the. Yeah, like the. The Bible and the in the the original Hebrew. Right. Um, when talking, I think it was when talking about God in the context of truth, it was more it referred to God using more masculine. I don't, I don't, I don't know exactly but what the point that I'm trying to make and I just want to move on from this point because I don't know all the details and I probably should have done the research before. But the point that I'm trying to make is it's very similar to how does it go. The man without the woman? Neither The woman without the man. Mm hmm. You know, it's kind of that same concept that I feel like women bring this compassion. Men bring, like, the truth and the justice. Oh, that's what it was. It was justice. Versus. True versus mercy. Mercy. That's what it was. We'll get there. We will eventually. Anyways, whenever talking about those characteristics, justice was masculine or like the masculine form. Mm hmm. And mercy was feminine. And so just an interesting point that I think is important. I mean, in order to achieve eternal life, you have to be married in the temple, and you have to make that covenant. Man and woman are together. Right. Same with compassion, mercy, grace, whatever is paired with justice and truth. Well, I think. I think long way to get to the point that I was trying to make. I reminded of the the phrase in the family proclamation, where it talks about how children are entitled to parents. Uh, not not parents, parents, children or struggle that children are entitled to a loving father and mother in the bonds of matrimony, something like that. It uses the word entitled to a both to both a mother and a father. And I think that is a good indicator that God understands that this balance is so essential in this case for child development. They like they need both the feminine and the masculine. They need that justice and mercy. So another. Sorry balance. There. I think the issues with these come when we focus more on one than the other. Mm hmm. And I think the emphasis is sometimes I mean, the overemphasis on truth sometimes leads to cruelty or, like, mockery tactics. Yeah. I think. Yeah. And I think, like, both sides of the political aisle engage with mockery and use that as a tactic. But, um, I tend to hold, like the religious to a higher standard with this because we have the, the context of especially like members of the church, we have the context of the plan of salvation. I tend to hold members of the church to a higher standard with this and like it is kind of a rallying cry or like a little bit empowering to mock the opposition and to point a finger and laugh at evil. But there is a difference between evil people and evil ideas there. I mean, evil people do exist that is like those they obviously exist. But most of the time I think it's just people, everyday people who are convinced that evil ideas are the most compassionate. So I think we should separate evil ideas from evil people or like critique. If we're going to mock anything, let it be the idea, not the person. Right. I think there's this it's important to remember that you can call out ideas and you can critique ideas without making it a character attack on the person. Right. And this is, um, nothing new, like. And I've, I've noticed a resurgence of this conversation recently, but, um, if you're not familiar with we've talked about before on the podcast does that it's kind of like the embodiment of an overemphasis on an over, like an overzealousness with truth, without the compassion. If you're not familiar, it's just kind of the subgroup of members of the church who use a certain hashtag as a rallying point for gospel advocacy. Some people who use it that I know are good people and um, use it as kind of an empowering thing. But a lot of people also use it as just like a religious justification to be cruel and and nasty. So that's nothing new that's been around for quite a few years. Um, but there has been kind of a resurgence of this conversation and how we can and balance balance these two things. It's kind of this idea that like if I'm right in principle, am I justified in mocking those who are wrong in principle? Um, asking that question and yeah, I don't know. I that's an interesting question because like the obvious answer that comes to your head is like, well, no, like you're not justified in mocking anyone but you. You still want to be able to call out the ideas and like, mock, I guess, the ideas. And I think there's a difference between mockery and lightheartedness, but I think a mockery, it's like more directed toward a person and at someone's expense, whereas lightheartedness could be like self-deprecation, or it could be making fun of an idea that is wrong, that is bad, that is damaging, but not necessarily again, not like directing it toward the individual. Does that feel right to you? Yeah, I mean, yeah. And and I think mockery is like it's enticing because like you said, it's a rallying cry, but it's it's also kind of funny to the people who are on the side that is doing the mocking. Right. I mean, don't get. There have been times where I have found mockery funny because of some of the ridiculous ideas and because I'm far removed from the person that's being mocked. Mm hmm. It is kind of funny. Yeah, it's not good. Yeah. And we have podcasts that we listen to who, um, they like. They're more conservative with their politics. And I agree with 95% of what they're saying, like the principles behind what they're saying, maybe even more. But a lot of times they do engage in this kind of, um, more like divisive mockery where again, they're, I think they're right in principle, but especially because they don't have the like they don't have the context of the gospel, the restore gospel, the plan of salvation. So they don't I guess they don't have the weight or don't see the weight quite as clearly. They don't see the weight of their words and the barrier like the, um, consequence of being a barrier to others, finding truth because of the context of the plan of salvation. We understand that our words have lasting impact on people and their eternal progression. And if we stand as a barrier for them to discover truth or to grow closer to Christ, that is really damning for them in this life. In the next, obviously, they'll have every opportunity to accept it. But we if we're standing as a barrier to them, finding the gospel by mocking them or by being cruel, then we are essentially limiting their opportunity to experience the blessings of the gospel, which is a big deal. We really can become a stumbling block for them to for them accepting the gospel. And I mean, it's enticing to to kind of follow these tactics of these people that you see because they have millions of followers and views and everything. And but we can't get swept up in that because, like Schuyler said, they don't have the context of the gospel. Yeah. To as their moral compass. I mean, they have whatever religion they go to, they have different moral. Foundations. Which. Which lines up a lot with ours. Right. That's the reason we gravitate toward them, because their religious foundations are similar, whether they're Christian or Jewish or those are kind of the two big ones. But even then, I mean, even those who don't believe in a higher being can be moral people. Um, I don't think systems can be built on that, but people can be good moral people regardless of their religion. But again, we have like with the context of the restored gospel, that's a much broader understanding. We believe in, uh, the pre earth life, which is very unique for our religion. We believe in this life, which is like a testing period, and then we believe in the next life. Um, more like a bigger picture. We have kind of a more specific picture of what the next life will look like. So it's a just kind of a more well-rounded. I just look at the Restore Gospel as a deeper understanding of God. And it's important to, with that understanding, kind of sift through the information that you're getting in order to, you know, take the good and leave the bad and go on your merry way. And that's what I try to do. Like, I, I try to take the good about the what they're saying, whether it's an influencer or a podcaster or whatever. Take the good behind what they're saying and just leave the bad. Like you said there, the bad usually comes in the form of tactics and then the good is usually more principle based. And so I try to make that distinction and kind of translate their message into the context of the restored gospel, because they don't have I mean, there's that scripture, um, those who receive the greater light receive the greater condemnation. Um, but I think the opposite is true or like the, the inverse. If you have the greater light, the greater understanding, you also have a greater responsibility to uphold, um, uphold good morality and decent and truth and like decent morals because of your understanding that it really does have a lasting impact on, on everyone. So those are kind of the, the cons of that. There's one other con that I, I thought of in thinking about like being overzealous or overfocus on truth. One thing is if people aren't ready to hear the truth, then they're going to run from the truth. Sometimes the truth is really hard to hear. Sometimes it it requires. Lining up on line. Yeah. And and sometimes it requires that you make some really hard changes and you feel a little not so great about yourself or choices that you've made, changes that you need to make. It can. I mean, we live in a fallen world. This is like something that really revolutionized the way that I see things, because I used to struggle a lot with like perfectionism and all these other things. And just the the knowledge that we live in a fallen world. And not every single thought or feeling you have is the truth. Like, was revolutionary for me, but something that I thought of is it could really be hard for people who are struggling with perfectionism or who feel like they don't have a place within the church to hear the truth so that I mean, but that doesn't mean we have to stop saying the truth. But that is just one thing that I think maybe motivates people to not share. The truth is they're afraid of making other people feel bad because the truth sometimes is hard. It's hard to hear sometimes. Yeah. And I think there's a difference between watering down the truth and understanding your audience and tailoring the truth to their level of understanding that that's kind of a distinction that we forget. Sometimes I think people look at look at like unless you are doing like if you're doing anything other than boldly speaking the hardest truth out there and just like spreading the truth out there, unless you're doing anything but that, then you are being permissive or you are, um, like going against your beliefs, but that there's nothing wrong. Like in being tactful and again, not watering down the truth, but understanding your audience. I think of like I wrote about this in my book about how like general religious Christians a lot of times, or even Jewish, Orthodox or Orthodox Jews, they will try to argue, um, points relating to gay marriage in in like a lot from a logic point of view trying to argue to like, so take someone who's in a gay relationship, you're not going to argue with them in a way that convinces them that they should not be in a gay relationship and they should pursue God. Like that's not going to happen in order to reach someone like that. The the spirit is going to have to touch there their heart and convince them and show them that God is real and that he loves them and has a better understanding of what is going to make them happy and fulfilled and set them on the path of spiritual success. So they'll have to first have that understanding and then that like from that comes a change of heart and then they might want to change their actions to fit in line with the gospel. Instead, a lot of people go straight to arguing, like the logic behind why you should not be in a gay relationship and and follow Christ, which is it's not going to work that way for for people who, again, don't have that context, they're just going to hear a logical argument that is going to completely fall flat. So right. We have a friend who, before he was baptized, was in a gay relationship. He's now married to a woman, but he was in a gay relationship. And then a temporary word, I think we can say, okay. He's I mean, he's told his story on podcast and stuff. Anyways, he's in a gay relationship. He felt inspired. I mean, I think one of his parents was a member, one wasn't. Anyways, he finally, over several years, decided to start learning about the church and then he got baptized. Now he's married to a woman and they have two kids. So anyways, it just I just wanted to point out that or like emphasize that is how it works. It was over a period of time through spiritual experiences, not someone coming in and giving him some logical argument. And he's like, You know what? Okay, you're right. You're right. Because he talks about how hard it was. He genuinely loved the man that he was with, and he talks about how hard it was to leave him because it wasn't like things in the relationship were going bad. It was just he wanted to join the church. He felt like that was right. And so he felt the spirit. Yeah, it was the spirit that did the work on him. But it was because he was exposed to truth that he decided to make those changes in his life. Right. Yeah. Um, I he's a great guy. He runs something called. Oh, I don't. No, I'm forgetting the name in Idaho, but it. Beacon. Beacon. SSA SSA Ministry. Okay, so if you're in the Idaho area. Without it. It is, uh, a great group who meets together, and so I recommend looking that up. He also writes things and I believe has a blog. So. So what are kind of the benefits of focusing on truth? I go ahead. I wanted to add this one we didn't actually talk about beforehand, but truth living the truth, it provides you sense of like freedom, you know, knowing that you are doing what God wants you to do. It's kind of freeing, even though you're like, kind of you have all these boundaries and like this fence, but it's kind of freeing in a way because, you know, you're not going to fall off the cliff. You have this fence that's protecting you from falling off the cliff and you know you're not going to fall because you know what the truth is? The truth is the fence that's keeping you in. You know? Yeah, I, um. Jordan Peterson talks about this a lot. How It's like freedom is not. I think it's Jordan. Maybe. Maybe someone. Else. I think I know what you're what you're going to talk about. And I don't remember who it was. Okay? Freedom. Like our true joy is not just an endless supply of freedom to do anything you want. It's an understanding of, like, responsibility and almost limiting your your freedom intentionally in order to fulfill responsibilities which bring fulfillment into your life. So like, yeah, I have the freedom to choose to be in a same sex relationship. I had that choice and freedom. Um, but understanding the context of the gospel. Initially, I wanted to pursue a temple marriage because I had that understanding and a testimony that that was what was going to be right for me. And then luckily I found Amanda and Oh, Fist bump. Okay. His thumb on me was crazy. No one had to see it. I know. But yes, I have to say that there is a of. Just. Done this. Without saying anything. It's like the other night. I'd have to tell the story really fast. No, I don't even remember why. But we were both up in the middle of the night. I think our daughter has been sick this week and I think I don't. Do you remember this? Did you fist bump me. This bummed you. Coming from. Her? Like I think I was coming from Remi's room after that. And you're getting up to go to the bathroom? I think because. The gym, I think I was waking up for the day. That was me, I think. Was that. Maybe. Not. I don't know. Simply of to him. I don't know why I told that story. It was a. Stupid. We just kind of break up the the heavy talk was right jokes every once in a while. Stupid stories. Anyway, I lost my track. Yeah. Luckily I found Amanda. Yeah. And. And what used to. What used to be just like a desire to fulfill a duty has become my what? Like what brings me fulfillment and joy. And so it's just, um, I guess, a fulfillment of God's promise that. That he knows best, that the gospel will bring you joy. And that sometimes delaying gratification in the moment brings greater joy. Mm hmm. That's the other principle that applies to really everything. Yeah. I think to like focusing on truth. Sometimes these, like, tactics, they. They can bring a sense of lightheartedness. We kind of talked about this and it can be somewhat of a relief from these heavy principles and topics that we are facing. So, I mean, there is a way to I don't want to say the word mockery. I wish there was I don't know what other word is, but like joking or like. Lighthearted. Fun lightheartedness, I don't know. It can bring a sense of relief. Because, like every joke is every joke is at the expense of someone else or something else. Um, no matter what it is, whether it's yourself or whether it's the other person. Or an idea. Yeah. So like. We're not saying that comedy is inherently bad. Right? Um, in fact, that maybe this would be a good time to go over. I, I talked about this in my book as well when discussing or like, when trying to conceptualize is the best way to approach, um, gospel advocacy. I just have the example of three different types of public presenters or speakers. So there are shock jock comedians, there are regular comedians, and then a motivational speaker. So a shock jock comedian is somebody who their only goal is to shock. You like to say something inflammatory that will just get a reaction for the sake of getting a reaction. And there's no deeper message behind what they're saying. It's just using shocking language to get someone to react. Um, your typical comedian will oftentimes be intentionally and offensive. Um, they'll, they'll say shocking things, but what, what they're doing is using offensive language or not, not always, but using jokes and sometimes offensive offensive jokes to point to like a a truth or to point out something rooted in truth, point out something that is a bad idea or that is evil or make some broader point that is bigger than the joke. And then a motivational speaker is one who, like their goal, is to uncover truth and to motivate people. And in so doing, like a good motivational speaker is just going to say the truth. How it is understanding that there's a good chance they're going to offend someone, but their goal isn't to offend someone. Their goal is to uncover truth, understanding that it's a real possibility that you're going to offend someone and not being like not shying away from the truth because of that, but also not intentionally going out of your way to offend someone. So that just like, I don't know, helps me. I like having examples, real world examples to conceptualize these more theoretical ideas. And so that is something that has been helpful for me to picture those, those three examples. But I think when like just going back to your every day, individual people just naturally gravitate toward compassion. Usually when when compassion is rooted in truth, I think that's the best case scenario and the best most effective way to help people on the covenant path is compassion that is rooted in truth rather than rooted in just like kind of a niceness or just a desire to not ruffling feathers. Right. Because when it's not rooted in truth, I mean, we kind of already touched on this. I don't want to talk about it too much, but when it's not rooted in truth, it really can lead to condoning or like saying, I guess what condoning is I was going to say, saying that it's okay, but permissiveness. Yeah. Of things that really shouldn't be condoned. I think I'm. Sorry. Well, I might have quoted this last time, but, um, Elder Kristofferson's take the first commandment first is really good. He talks about this idea and how one of his best lines in it is if, um, let's see, what, what, how does it work That, um, compassion not rooted in or trying to love someone when it's not rooted in God's truth risks harming the individual you're trying to love. So that's why the First Amendment is first love. God comes first. Because if you're trying to love someone, but it's not rooted in a love for God, you risk harming that individual by trying to express love, but doing so in a way that is rooted in more of just like a surface level attempt to make them feel good rather than help them on the covenant path. Yeah, totally. But I think. Balance has to figure out. It is. And I think the reason why this conversation has been brought to the forefront is because of President Nelson stuck in last conference. And like in. In the last general conference. Yeah about how about this like divisiveness and getting along with others and I really think his message was inviting us all to exist on a higher plane of communication with each other and again, not water down the truth, not not to go along to get along. It's just presenting the truth in a way that is compassionate so more people gravitate toward it and you can be more effective in your in your gospel advocacy. So to finish up here, what what are some good ways that we can like, what are some methods or ideas to remember when we are promoting, um, the truth, keeping grace connected to it? How can we do that? The the first one I have here ask genuine questions to those with opposing viewpoints because I think, um, there's something called the Socratic method, which is just this idea of when you're communicating or trying to engage with someone that you don't agree with, ask them genuine questions, not in a way to get them to look stupid, but in a way. That is a tactic that a lot of people use. Yeah, but yeah, in a way to like really understand what their their point is. And can usually tell pretty quickly which one it is. And sometimes I've been guilty of asking a question made to just make them look dumb rather than trying to understand or and there's two pieces of it. It could be either trying to understand or getting them to honestly consider a different perspective by asking a question. The other one express your ideas kindly and firmly. I mean, it's the balance of grace and truth like we've been talking about. There's a way to do both. I think children need that sort of balance. They need the firmness, but they also need kindness, um, because they're emotionally driven. And if you react in more of an aggressive way, then they're going to shut off. They're going to have an outburst. But if you're not firm with your standards, then they're going to manipulate you because they are. We all just like. Little children. Big toddlers. Yeah, walking around. Very much so. Especially when we're interacting and online. Sometimes I think I'm like, are we adults here? I mean, even of myself. I'm not saying of other people like I have been guilty of not being the best online. So that's what Twitter is. It's just a place to dunk on others, not to place. So like, people try to have genuine conversations and it happens, but it's usually just really like, really, um. Curt, is that the word? Like really? Just to the point. Yeah. Direct. Lacking any sort of compassion, just like you're wrong. And this is why. Because you only have so much, so much. You only. Have like. So many words to feel. Like when you're conversing in person, it's a lot different than. Yeah. When you're on Twitter. And that's another one we have here. Understand that online is different from in-person and how I've talked before about your sister. Oh yeah. And how we sent. It to Katie. And how we disagree on basically everything politically at least not everything, but a lot. And when we're having conversations, um, there's a lot more nuance, there's a lot more, um, like more chances to understand the other side and to have a more genuine discussion. But like, when we're interacting on social media, it's a lot less tactful and like a lot it's just you just got to get your point out there. And so it's, it's harder to be more nuanced, I guess. And I would suggest kind of going along with that. I mean, if if it's someone that you can have an input in conversation with, just do that. Yeah. If it's someone that you know, in real life and you see them and you interact with them, have a conversation in person, it's so much easier to understand each other. And I know that's not always realistic. That's not always what you can do, but it I've learned that in my life, texting and like messages, it just doesn't come across quite the same. Yeah, my, my coworker, I'm like, I tried to, to text how I talk and like, be more expressive, but every now and then I just like, get to the point. And so there was, there was a night where we were texting about something work related, and then the next day she was like, Are you okay? Like, are you mad at me? Yeah. No, I. And she just said, Well, your texts were just so I don't know, to the point in, like, abrupt. And it wasn't because I was trying to be. It's just because that's the nature of texting. And I think especially with older people, they're like much more just blunt in their texting and like, it can be easy to think that they are mad about something when it's really they're just getting like there's this lack of complexity in the conversation. So yeah. Well, anything else here before we take some questions? Nothing else. Okay, let me put I did something new where I didn't even look at the questions beforehand and I did an anonymous question thing. So we're just going to like, pick one by one here, see if something good comes up. Let's see, how would you help? And LGBTQ plus individual feel a greater love for the temple? Hmm. That's a that's a good. Good start. Good start. Good, solid start. Um. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pass this one over to you. Ever been LGBTQ person, so, I don't know. Discriminatory of you to assume that I want to answer this question. Sorry. Um, I mean, the whole premise of my book that the title Exclude Not Thyself, is kind of rooted in the idea that one of the biggest barriers for gay members same sex attracted members, whatever you want to call it, members with gender dysphoria. One of the biggest barriers is ourselves, because we exclude ourselves and like we start, we start believing the lie that we are an exception to the rule for whatever it may be. And obviously there's a difference. Situations like I'm not saying that a temple marriage is attainable for everyone in every situation, but even if you aren't able to pursue a temple marriage. You can still understand that the covenants we make in the temple, whatever they are, you know, whichever level or like whatever covenants you make are like pointing you toward a bigger thing, something beyond yourself, a relationship with God and our savior. And that applies to everyone. That's not just your typical member who doesn't have an experience under the alphabet acronym. So that's that's my answer. Do you want to do want to add anything there? Nope. Okay. You did a great job. The next one. Basically took everything I would have said. Sorry is probably far away from the like. Let's see what else we got here. That was definitely not my question. You get. Together. Yeah. So this question is from an anonymous person. Why did you just fart in the kitchen. And I do long useful. Speaking of being toddlers. Oh. Oh, well, he did. And then I was also looking at his story on Instagram. So I. I think that's misinformation. Let's use the next one. Let's see. That one's boring. Okay. How do you handle the sadness that sometimes comes from people distancing themselves from you because of your standards so good question. Um. I can't say I've really had anyone. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever had anyone, like, cut ties. Well, no, that's true. I didn't. Actually have someone. So, yeah, I did have a a good friend who, um. It was during the presidential election of 2016. No, it's 20, 20. 2020. Three. You're married. Oh, that's right. We made the mistake of posting our choice of candidate. A very reluctant, very reluctant choice. Choice to to vote for Trump. So I just posted that. And a good friend from high school, um, out of that decided that she wanted to cut ties with me and. Couldn't be friends with him anymore. So yeah, she blocked me on social media and, and I haven't heard from her since, which is. It's really sad, really sad. And it really did affect me. Um, and how do they work through that sadness? I just. I mean, time and, um, I tried reaching out to her and hope one day that she will reach out again and we can clear things up. But I just surround myself with, with people who I don't agree with on everything, but we share the common idea that we can disagree and still love each other. So it's hard when that that person is someone that you care for. But I guess, I don't know, focusing on or, um, surrounding yourselves, creating as a community of support of people who will uplift you, I think is. A good thing. Yeah, I was going to say, focusing on the relationships you do have and the people in your life who are willing to stay in your life, even if they don't agree with you. I think focusing on that is going to help end time, like Skylar said, because, I mean, it is a process of, you know, grieving that relationship and grief takes time. MM You might not ever get over it, but you'll find somewhere is your life. And yeah, you'll find like other places to invest your time. Um, another one how to, how to be involved in the church when you are shy and introverted. Um, I, I consider myself fairly introverted. Um, I definitely am like an introvert in the sense that I, I am energized more when I'm alone versus when I'm, I'm very tired out by. Something that drains you. Too. So, yeah, social. And I just kind of take it in stride. And, um, again, going back to earlier about how we stand on our own way, another thing, um, that has been revelatory for me is when I don't feel like I fit in at church, it's usually because I'm not making an effort like I'm, not, um, yeah, we, like, we want to promote the idea that we should, like, try to involve others, but we also to involve ourselves. We also have to make an effort to because a lot of people there's a good real on Instagram from forgetting her name. She's great. Oh, I can't remember. But she posted something about how when she doesn't feel like she belongs at church or fits in, she tries to remember that we kind of all feel this way, like we're all probably feeling the same way, and it's just up to us to involve ourselves. Was that did we talk about that recently in church or was that in Relief Society or was that Sunday school? Oh, it was. I am Sarah Phelps on Instagram. She's great. You should follow her. Oh, there she is. I think that's the one that just came up. Sorry, What did you ask? Did we just talk about this in Sunday school or was it Relief Society? Just don't remember talking about it. Okay, So that might have been really shady. Yeah, just a lot of times I think we sometimes think, Oh, no one's reaching. Yeah, it was really society. I remember now. Oh, no one reaching out to me. They might not like me, but a lot of times it's really they're feeling the same way. They're like, No one's reaching out to me. Like, I feel left out like I don't know anyone. So I think sometimes you have to put yourself out there. It's not easy. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's. And it's uncomfortable, but it's worth it. And if even if you can just make, like one friend that, you know, I think that helps you to feel a little bit more comfortable. Mm hmm. I don't know. Yeah, that's good advice. That's something that we've tried to do a little bit better in this word. Reaching out, making friends. We have such an amazing word right now. Honestly, we love it. So much. And we, like we made a concerted effort when we moved to this word. Our last word was great, but just not quite as outgoing and we didn't really fit in. It was kind of an older word just fine, but. And we were going through a lot that. Yeah, like losing Milo and a lot. So with moving to this new ward, we reached out to the Bishop beforehand and set up an appointment just to introduce ourselves and. Told them that we wanted callings we were willing to serve. And. Callings is what he gave us. So building coordinators and now we don't have anything to do because it's. I do. Oh, now you're in activity days and activity days. Yeah. So now I don't have much to do because we don't have to. It's not our turn to clean the church anymore. So anyway, I think we have we have a few more questions, but I think that's probably a good place to end it here. We could go on for a while. Um, but I want to go to bed, so. Yeah, it's almost ten, and. We'll leave it there for today. And thank you for listening. A reminder to follow us on social media. I'm on Substack. I occasionally post there and Instagram Twitter. It would also be helpful to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. And until next time we will see you. Then.